We should try a mass declare. Some of us will die, but any time we catch somebody lying we can instantly lynch them. This way as long as we have a majority we will win. We don't want a mafia sweep
I'm a normal townie, no powers.
This is a terrible idea when you have someone who can turn good guys into bad guys. Why would you make his life easier? And even if someone true-claimed a good role, you're just guaranteeing that you can't actually trust it in the long run. And scum aren't exactly going to lie in a way that's easily caught. They just claim villager, and that's fairly useless. There's no gain to the good guys, except to let the seer remove a few good guys from the pool (and in the process, making those good guys sitting ducks).
At least someone pointed out that Tank cancels powers so I don't have to do it, because that portion of the plan was even worse than the initial bit.
Mafia won't want to do it for obvious reasons
I love how you preemptively throw some doubt on anyone who disagrees with your plan.
Hey SB, are you deliberately trying to do what's absolutely worst for town? because this looks like it.
Lynch SB
Elect Ixta, Seer powers I have no reason to trust the rest of you. My only confirmed information is on myself. And some of the random votes hopping around seem a little too 'random', like an, "oh hey, I'm not advancing my own interests, I'm just 'randomly voting...'" Which is actually questionable. No one has reason to be quick to trust any one else. Entirely random votes show that the person making them doesn't particularly care about what happens with the roles and power. Some people are just being thoughtless, but this is a trait that tends to be a sign of bad-guy thinking. They're not worried about bad guys getting it, because they know exactly who the bad guys are.
We should try a mass declare. Some of us will die, but any time we catch somebody lying we can instantly lynch them. This way as long as we have a majority we will win. We don't want a mafia sweep
I'm a normal townie, no powers.
This is a terrible idea when you have someone who can turn good guys into bad guys. Why would you make his life easier? And even if someone true-claimed a good role, you're just guaranteeing that you can't actually trust it in the long run. And scum aren't exactly going to lie in a way that's easily caught. They just claim villager, and that's fairly useless. There's no gain to the good guys, except to let the seer remove a few good guys from the pool (and in the process, making those good guys sitting ducks).
At least someone pointed out that Tank cancels powers so I don't have to do it, because that portion of the plan was even worse than the initial bit.
Mafia won't want to do it for obvious reasons
I love how you preemptively throw some doubt on anyone who disagrees with your plan.
Hey SB, are you deliberately trying to do what's absolutely worst for town? because this looks like it.
Lynch SB
Elect Ixta, Seer powers I have no reason to trust the rest of you. My only confirmed information is on myself. And some of the random votes hopping around seem a little too 'random', like an, "oh hey, I'm not advancing my own interests, I'm just 'randomly voting...'" Which is actually questionable. No one has reason to be quick to trust any one else. Entirely random votes show that the person making them doesn't particularly care about what happens with the roles and power. Some people are just being thoughtless, but this is a trait that tends to be a sign of bad-guy thinking. They're not worried about bad guys getting it, because they know exactly who the bad guys are.
"past the second night he can turn one person into a clone of himself."
I'm not sure if that means on night 3, or on night 2 (looks like night 3 to me), but smith cannot make a clone just yet. 2 Nights should give us enough time to figure out the primary people we need to lynch. By waiting, we are empowering smith. We will never have a way to find out who's converted. Think about it Ixta, are we really gonna have a better chance of winning if everybody holds on to their roles in secret, until smith builds up an army? At some point somebody is going to have to declare, or we're going to have to get really lucky with a lynch. Waiting isn't good for town, waiting around encouraging everybody to keep secrets because "the boogey man will get the good guys if they tell people who they are" is only going to let smith win.
I feel like I want to agree with lynching sb, but I am worried that we might be a bit biased because of all the drama the last few days and I want to avoid making a bad call there. I do think trying to get everyone to declare will just be a fluster cluck.
I'm okay with not declaring. I think it's a plan that would win the game, but I'm open to other options? Not like anybody else has any right now
Does anybody have any idea how we're going to deal with smith? I'm at least trying to come up with a way to deal with it. Right now we have a huge numbers advantage 5-17. If we don't get a baddy in these first 2 nights, it's going to be something like 6-13 and then 7-11, and we won't have a shot.
Unfortunately unlike in the movie, evil has no need to really fight smith. Sure, theoretically smith will want to drag out the game a bit, but it will only take him 3 nights to guarantee victory. If we haven't seen a smith by night 6, it's gg 100% certain. Even if we do see smith, every night past 6 that original smith isn't dead brings him that much closer to winning.
Also @Damdred, what happens to people smith converted if original smith dies?
Anywho, my big point is, at some point people are going to have to declare anyway to get town to lynch correctly, and then smith can gobble them up, just as Ixta pointed out. Or everybody keeps secrets forever and the good roles become meaningless because information was never shared.
"past the second night he can turn one person into a clone of himself."
I'm not sure if that means on night 3, or on night 2 (looks like night 3 to me), but smith cannot make a clone just yet. 2 Nights should give us enough time to figure out the primary people we need to lynch. By waiting, we are empowering smith. We will never have a way to find out who's converted. Think about it Ixta, are we really gonna have a better chance of winning if everybody holds on to their roles in secret, until smith builds up an army? At some point somebody is going to have to declare, or we're going to have to get really lucky with a lynch. Waiting isn't good for town, waiting around encouraging everybody to keep secrets because "the boogey man will get the good guys if they tell people who they are" is only going to let smith win.
ok, I'm automatically against this, but I'll give it consideration. So, math time?
We have 22 players and 6 good roles. Neo, tank, Oracle, 3 crew (4-cypher who's an auto-traitor and doesn't count).
let's say the 5 good roles reveal (tank doesn't), and we ignore dealing with cypher for the present moment. He'll be known though, so we remove 6 total from the player list. that leaves us with 16 players. Bad guys won't make claims that are obviously bad. Being 1 in 16 is a lot safer than 1 in 2. your suggestion that this would happen in any world is silly to me. So, in the first 2 nights, we get 2 day kills, the crew gets 2 night kills, and the seer, if claimed, gets no information because she's either being protected by tank or shot by the bad guys. Unless they decide to go after Neo, who also has potential seer powers. easy targeting either way, and it's likely they'll kill whichever of the two isn't protected by tank. let's be generous, and say we get 2 checks out of the 2 nights. Now we've eliminated 4 players, so down to 12 unknowns, and seen 2, so down to 10. The mayor has seer powers (potentially) as well, but isn't trustworthy. If you can trust your mayor, we could get 2 more checks out of it, and be down to 8 unknowns.
This number is a bit variable though. If we see a bad guy, we'll kill him, of course, and that increases the number of unknowns, because my current layout assumes kills and checks are fully separate. This heads us into day 3 with anywhere from 2-4 of our 6 known good guys dead due to carefully targeted bad guy kills.
You think this is a game solved situation at this point? unless we can kill Smith before he activates, he'd start turning the known goods at this point, meaning all the information we've gained is fairly useless on who to trust. If we haven't killed him, then 8 people is still a lot to sort through. We might be able to kill several bad guys, but if we accidentally kill townies during day lynches or crew night kills, I think we're looking at a swift overrun.
"past the second night he can turn one person into a clone of himself."
I'm not sure if that means on night 3, or on night 2 (looks like night 3 to me), but smith cannot make a clone just yet. 2 Nights should give us enough time to figure out the primary people we need to lynch. By waiting, we are empowering smith. We will never have a way to find out who's converted. Think about it Ixta, are we really gonna have a better chance of winning if everybody holds on to their roles in secret, until smith builds up an army? At some point somebody is going to have to declare, or we're going to have to get really lucky with a lynch. Waiting isn't good for town, waiting around encouraging everybody to keep secrets because "the boogey man will get the good guys if they tell people who they are" is only going to let smith win.
ok, I'm automatically against this, but I'll give it consideration. So, math time?
We have 22 players and 6 good roles. Neo, tank, Oracle, 3 crew (4-cypher who's an auto-traitor and doesn't count).
let's say the 5 good roles reveal (tank doesn't), and we ignore dealing with cypher for the present moment. He'll be known though, so we remove 6 total from the player list. that leaves us with 16 players. Bad guys won't make claims that are obviously bad. Being 1 in 16 is a lot safer than 1 in 2. your suggestion that this would happen in any world is silly to me. So, in the first 2 nights, we get 2 day kills, the crew gets 2 night kills, and the seer, if claimed, gets no information because she's either being protected by tank or shot by the bad guys. Unless they decide to go after Neo, who also has potential seer powers. easy targeting either way, and it's likely they'll kill whichever of the two isn't protected by tank. let's be generous, and say we get 2 checks out of the 2 nights. Now we've eliminated 4 players, so down to 12 unknowns, and seen 2, so down to 10. The mayor has seer powers (potentially) as well, but isn't trustworthy. If you can trust your mayor, we could get 2 more checks out of it, and be down to 8 unknowns.
This number is a bit variable though. If we see a bad guy, we'll kill him, of course, and that increases the number of unknowns, because my current layout assumes kills and checks are fully separate. This heads us into day 3 with anywhere from 2-4 of our 6 known good guys dead due to carefully targeted bad guy kills.
You think this is a game solved situation at this point? unless we can kill Smith before he activates, he'd start turning the known goods at this point, meaning all the information we've gained is fairly useless on who to trust. If we haven't killed him, then 8 people is still a lot to sort through. We might be able to kill several bad guys, but if we accidentally kill townies during day lynches or crew night kills, I think we're looking at a swift overrun.
We're looking at a swift overrun anyway. And you're forgetting, we can mayor somebody, who can protect. Or hell mayor who can see. They can't kill 3 potential seers. Setting that aside though.
Consider the alternatives. First let's consider the worst possible scenario. We lynch a townie on day 1, then 2 townies die on night 1. Repeat for day/night 2. That leaves us 6 townies down, leaving 11 Good Guys, 5 bad guys. Day 3, another good guy lynched, 10-5. At night, a new bad guy is made, and 2 townies die, leaving us at 7-6. Game is over at this point, potentially by night the end of 3.
3. Let's consider a more optimistic scenario, hell a fairly optimistic scenario. Day 1 town lynch, but night 1 lets say the crew gets a baddy, and the agents get another good guy. 15-4 at the start of day 2. Let's repeat this process (extremely optimistic). Start of day 3, 13-3. Day 3, lets say another townie is lynched, and this time the good guys guess wrong. The bad guys get another townie, and smith converts. At the start of day 4, we're at 11-4. Lets say we lynch correctly on the smith clone (who was just a vanilla townie), but miss again with the good guys at night. Smith converts again. Day 5, 9-4. If we miss the day lynch here, game goes to 8-4, and smith gains another at night. Even if we lynch correctly the next day, its now 6-4, and closing fast. By Day 6 we're in a must lynch smith situation.
If you're following me, if we don't get smith we're going to be in hot water no matter how good or lucky we are with lynches.
There's also the possibility I didn't consider, that smith turns a bad guy into a clone of him. That would keep evil numbers down, but unfortunately would cause evil to become more organized.
Tell me, at what point does seer need to come forward? At what point is somebody gonna step up so we as a town can take action. Tell me, what day do you think it would be appropriate? Because if we wait, it won't matter anyway
Okay I can get behind a day 3 reveal of information. Sounds good, as long as the right people are paying attention. I like 2 days of seer mayor, though it's likely seer mayor will get killed off if he's not mafia. Does he get the information at night if we elect seer mayor?
Going over the rules look like its a nightly role. So unless mayor-seer is evil (or mafia decides to meta game) the seer-mayor should die nightly. A bit conflicted on if we should not do seer mayor. The information would be good but information taken to the grave does us no good.
No real way to protect the mayor either, since tank cancels powers. protection power is fairly useless without a good target, and killing would likely hit civilians, bringing us into an overrun situation more quickly.
Of course, we could play a game of "wine in front of me"...
We elect a seer-mayor who we think is actually a suspicious person, and if they don't die, we know they're scum.
Bad guys now have to choice of confirming suspicious people as town with a kill, revealing themselves as bad guys by not killing, or allowing information through the net in order to try and cast doubt on someone who actually is town.
I think this essentially ends up as a win-win situation for town. I'm assuming there're reveals upon death?
Mayor can protect somebody (possibly themselves if it's allowed and we're worried about baddies killing the mayor each night though they have no reason to if it's not with the seer role). Oracle can view somebody. Tank randomly protects and gets a chance at stopping a baddie night action.
As far as the revealing goes, I think it really depends on how these first two nights go. Assuming the Smith role isn't active until night 3, that is. Which it seems to be from the wording.
"or allowing information through the net in order to try and cast doubt on someone who actually is town. "
I saw that bit, and I was agreeing. The problem is that it makes it a completely void strategy. We still have a 50-50 chance of killing a good guy we think is suspicious.
Think of it this way: We have a suspicious person that (unbeknownst to us) is actually a townperson. We vote them into the mayor role. Now the bad guys can kill someone else, AND artificially raise the suspicious level of that town person while doing it.
"or allowing information through the net in order to try and cast doubt on someone who actually is town. "
I saw that bit, and I was agreeing. The problem is that it makes it a completely void strategy. We still have a 50-50 chance of killing a good guy we think is suspicious.
Think of it this way: We have a suspicious person that (unbeknownst to us) is actually a townperson. We vote them into the mayor role. Now the bad guys can kill someone else, AND artificially raise the suspicious level of that town person while doing it.
But if they still relay their information, then die as a townie, we know their information was valid
Comments
Do we have to lynch kill somebody? Waiting for the bus outside Epcot and haven't read 100% of everything in the rules or posts thus far.
zeal for mayor - seer
At least someone pointed out that Tank cancels powers so I don't have to do it, because that portion of the plan was even worse than the initial bit. I love how you preemptively throw some doubt on anyone who disagrees with your plan.
Hey SB, are you deliberately trying to do what's absolutely worst for town? because this looks like it.
Lynch SB
Elect Ixta, Seer powers
I have no reason to trust the rest of you. My only confirmed information is on myself. And some of the random votes hopping around seem a little too 'random', like an, "oh hey, I'm not advancing my own interests, I'm just 'randomly voting...'" Which is actually questionable. No one has reason to be quick to trust any one else. Entirely random votes show that the person making them doesn't particularly care about what happens with the roles and power. Some people are just being thoughtless, but this is a trait that tends to be a sign of bad-guy thinking. They're not worried about bad guys getting it, because they know exactly who the bad guys are.
"past the second night he can turn one
person into a clone of himself."
I'm not sure if that means on night 3, or on night 2 (looks like night 3 to me), but smith cannot make a clone just yet. 2 Nights should give us enough time to figure out the primary people we need to lynch. By waiting, we are empowering smith. We will never have a way to find out who's converted. Think about it Ixta, are we really gonna have a better chance of winning if everybody holds on to their roles in secret, until smith builds up an army? At some point somebody is going to have to declare, or we're going to have to get really lucky with a lynch. Waiting isn't good for town, waiting around encouraging everybody to keep secrets because "the boogey man will get the good guys if they tell people who they are" is only going to let smith win.
Your logic has no place here. This is skpf ww.
Does anybody have any idea how we're going to deal with smith? I'm at least trying to come up with a way to deal with it. Right now we have a huge numbers advantage 5-17. If we don't get a baddy in these first 2 nights, it's going to be something like 6-13 and then 7-11, and we won't have a shot.
Unfortunately unlike in the movie, evil has no need to really fight smith. Sure, theoretically smith will want to drag out the game a bit, but it will only take him 3 nights to guarantee victory. If we haven't seen a smith by night 6, it's gg 100% certain. Even if we do see smith, every night past 6 that original smith isn't dead brings him that much closer to winning.
Also @Damdred, what happens to people smith converted if original smith dies?
Anywho, my big point is, at some point people are going to have to declare anyway to get town to lynch correctly, and then smith can gobble them up, just as Ixta pointed out. Or everybody keeps secrets forever and the good roles become meaningless because information was never shared.
We have 22 players and 6 good roles. Neo, tank, Oracle, 3 crew (4-cypher who's an auto-traitor and doesn't count).
let's say the 5 good roles reveal (tank doesn't), and we ignore dealing with cypher for the present moment. He'll be known though, so we remove 6 total from the player list. that leaves us with 16 players. Bad guys won't make claims that are obviously bad. Being 1 in 16 is a lot safer than 1 in 2. your suggestion that this would happen in any world is silly to me. So, in the first 2 nights, we get 2 day kills, the crew gets 2 night kills, and the seer, if claimed, gets no information because she's either being protected by tank or shot by the bad guys. Unless they decide to go after Neo, who also has potential seer powers. easy targeting either way, and it's likely they'll kill whichever of the two isn't protected by tank. let's be generous, and say we get 2 checks out of the 2 nights. Now we've eliminated 4 players, so down to 12 unknowns, and seen 2, so down to 10. The mayor has seer powers (potentially) as well, but isn't trustworthy. If you can trust your mayor, we could get 2 more checks out of it, and be down to 8 unknowns.
This number is a bit variable though. If we see a bad guy, we'll kill him, of course, and that increases the number of unknowns, because my current layout assumes kills and checks are fully separate. This heads us into day 3 with anywhere from 2-4 of our 6 known good guys dead due to carefully targeted bad guy kills.
You think this is a game solved situation at this point? unless we can kill Smith before he activates, he'd start turning the known goods at this point, meaning all the information we've gained is fairly useless on who to trust. If we haven't killed him, then 8 people is still a lot to sort through. We might be able to kill several bad guys, but if we accidentally kill townies during day lynches or crew night kills, I think we're looking at a swift overrun.
I will just Vote myself, seer powers.
Definately don't want to lynch anyone atm. Let the spoon bending practice commence. Or maybe have a cookie.
Consider the alternatives. First let's consider the worst possible scenario. We lynch a townie on day 1, then 2 townies die on night 1. Repeat for day/night 2. That leaves us 6 townies down, leaving 11 Good Guys, 5 bad guys. Day 3, another good guy lynched, 10-5. At night, a new bad guy is made, and 2 townies die, leaving us at 7-6. Game is over at this point, potentially by night the end of 3.
3. Let's consider a more optimistic scenario, hell a fairly optimistic scenario. Day 1 town lynch, but night 1 lets say the crew gets a baddy, and the agents get another good guy. 15-4 at the start of day 2. Let's repeat this process (extremely optimistic). Start of day 3, 13-3. Day 3, lets say another townie is lynched, and this time the good guys guess wrong. The bad guys get another townie, and smith converts. At the start of day 4, we're at 11-4. Lets say we lynch correctly on the smith clone (who was just a vanilla townie), but miss again with the good guys at night. Smith converts again. Day 5, 9-4. If we miss the day lynch here, game goes to 8-4, and smith gains another at night. Even if we lynch correctly the next day, its now 6-4, and closing fast. By Day 6 we're in a must lynch smith situation.
If you're following me, if we don't get smith we're going to be in hot water no matter how good or lucky we are with lynches.
There's also the possibility I didn't consider, that smith turns a bad guy into a clone of him. That would keep evil numbers down, but unfortunately would cause evil to become more organized.
Tell me, at what point does seer need to come forward? At what point is somebody gonna step up so we as a town can take action. Tell me, what day do you think it would be appropriate? Because if we wait, it won't matter anyway
or we could have 2 days of seer-mayor, and ask neo and seer to do checks as well, and have a reveal of info on day 3?
Is revealing now significantly better than revealing on day 3? Good guys can always reveal if we're about to lynch them.
We elect a seer-mayor who we think is actually a suspicious person, and if they don't die, we know they're scum.
Bad guys now have to choice of confirming suspicious people as town with a kill, revealing themselves as bad guys by not killing, or allowing information through the net in order to try and cast doubt on someone who actually is town.
I think this essentially ends up as a win-win situation for town. I'm assuming there're reveals upon death?
Mayor can protect somebody (possibly themselves if it's allowed and we're worried about baddies killing the mayor each night though they have no reason to if it's not with the seer role).
Oracle can view somebody.
Tank randomly protects and gets a chance at stopping a baddie night action.
As far as the revealing goes, I think it really depends on how these first two nights go. Assuming the Smith role isn't active until night 3, that is. Which it seems to be from the wording.
Wouldn't the baddies just not kill the mayor they are supposed to want to kill. Then we lynch them the next day and it's win-win for them?
Think of it this way: We have a suspicious person that (unbeknownst to us) is actually a townperson. We vote them into the mayor role. Now the bad guys can kill someone else, AND artificially raise the suspicious level of that town person while doing it.
What incentive does someone that is already on the chopping block to become minced meat have to give us valid information?
This is stupid.