In general, the offense to defense ratio for Anti-Turtle is as follows: 1. 60:40 2. 77:33 - maybe this meant 77:23 3. 66:34 4. free land
FLAMES October 2014
Posts: 2,080 Regular build 60-40 AT- less then 50-50 and worse.
PeeEyeEee October 2014 QuoteFlag Posts: 1,946 An Anti-turtle is defined as someone in a constant state of suicide i.e. 33% or less of total military in defense. Some KDs walk a line at 40% and after a couple of grabs have less than 33% defense.
gentlemansfury October 2014 QuoteFlag Posts: 306 here is my definition of AT..if your defense/offense difference is say this 33/77 you are AT. A good measure to me is if you can break yourselft1.5-2x then you fit the bill and are free land.
PeeEyeEee October 2014 QuoteFlag Posts: 1,946 LadyAshnod said:
Damdred said: don't forget pie rules on ATs change as size changes etc
Damred: Yeah, I think the AL's should also make an agreement as to how to define suicidal kingdom, depending on how far are you in the game. Sort of formula, eg. day 7/90 day game or day 50/90 day game. That makes a big difference in growth and NW.
That's a very helpful comment to consider.
Im sorry, but rules on ATs dont change as they get bigger. If you are in a constant suicide, you are free land. If no one can break you fine... but you are still free land and with DWs these days, it doesnt take long to mass troops. No SL or AL can protect suiciders and the formula is still the same as always.
100%-67% -Not Open 66%-34% -Open 33%-0% - Suicider
DeLaRocha November 2014 QuoteFlag Posts: 28 Hey LA - If your offence can break your defence and your defence is not 'top defence' then you are classed as AT. This can be a viable strategy if you want to have fun, but typically AT kingdoms are those that just want to mess up other kingdoms. ATs are not generally killed because they are AT, they are killed because they are AT and they try and mess up other kingdoms. Eg - all of the current multies have roughly 1k tanks and between 3-5k goons. They are AT and they want to mess up other kingdoms so they are kill targets.
RockzSK November 2014 QuoteFlag Posts: 99 AT is frerland/KT in anyone's book. Because they ain't hit yet doesn't mean they won't. So u clear them out asap
LoXie March 12 QuoteFlag </b. Posts: 100 I'm just gonna say this. AT is a gamble. Frankly, ALL of SK is a gamble. It was probably tons easier to hide out when the game had thousands of players, go high probes, make borderline hits, then rely on your probe defense to make sure that nobody could take your SoM and retal. These days, the odds are entirely stacked against anyone attemping AT or pseudo AT builds, because the playerbase is so tiny, that you will get caught out and people WILL find you.
I don't think we should focus on what AT is, but keep to what is considered open & suicided only. Being AT is not against the rules. Being an AT only means you will inevitably have poor defense and that's when kds are killed off. If we simply stick to the universal rules, the problem would solve itself. That is 2/3s defense out = suicide.
Who is KTing default? I didn't even know he was back.
This happened in Round 66 with the short lived re-union. I was also surprise that they told me, that a player in Fenris was auto KT, because of the particular built. I felt so dumb - not knowing it, because well...we use to investigate cases, not just AUTO KT.
Flames was LJ, and Walls of BC mentioned it and others who considered themselves oldies. Since I do not know it and I am oldies, maybe I should be considered ancient.
It was new to me at that time, so I got confuse what is the ratio... and I ask around to check what others say about it. In that round, i think most of the players on AIM told me that AT =KT.
AT has been considered auto KT to some oldies, but is not mentioned in universal rules because there's nothing wrong with it.
Yeah, it has not been mentioned in the last 2 rounds...at least.
AT is AT regardless of size, you may be unbreakable when you get bigger... but you are still AT. 33% is the magic number and it includes total military, not just offense as some fucktards have claimed. 4k goons 2k LDs is AT. AT is NOT KTable, but they are FREE LAND as they are always suicided. 6k tanks is not AT but 6k tanks with 4k out is suicided and free land (assuming no other defense of course) the numbers stay the same regardless. 33% is free land, whether that's because you send too much out or that's your build.
AT becomes KT when that KD gets upset when they constantly get hit and start rolling the same Alliance.
it's a simple answer to this question really, if you have built a piece of shit with the sole purpose of ruining someone's kd. Then u die. If you build a piece of shit that has massive O and not ultimate defense. Then you will be slapped around some, if after that you don't sort your defense out (most don't) then you become free land for being a pile of shit. it's not really hard to see what a genuine pile of shit build is like.
I see you point of the turtles. Once the defense is high, then mass TFs... you're tough cookie to crack. But then again, since they are very slow growers, there are bound to be really big kingdom who can smack them. Probably, it may not be worth the land gain because of the heavy casualty that you will experience when grabbing a turtle. On the other hands, there are those kingdoms who have at 50/50 dam/def, at same land size, then you will target this kingdom as your landgrabs, compared to turtles.
In essence, turtles don't have much action in the universe, but personally, I don't mind them at all.
Anti turtle (correct me if this analogy is wrong) is basically hot headed players like Ben. They are on constant need for expansion, risking too much of their damn/def for conquest. After all, Universal domination is the name of the game.
That is fine, but also...do not whine when you get slaughtered, because you are wide open... there is that high risk of devastation in exchange for risky conquest.
33 percent or less def at home is just calling for disaster - is this technically suicidal kingdom or shall we define what is suicide first? I agree, you cannot protect a suicider.
How do you define a suicidal kingdom? (( also depends how far during the game? )) [as SL, you gotta be sure to make your call, if its suicidal or not]
a. sending 70% of you total defensive forces or b. defense points left at kingdom per land ( ie. 15 LD per land, or 1: 5LD,4LT, 2Tanks)
Now, suicidal kingdom are technically free land for a LIMITED time, when he sent those 70% forces out, say 17 hours max, troops will eventually come home. (bash rule don't apply for suicidal attackers, btw).
When their troops come home, and granting the suicidal kingdom survive his own error of judgement/living on the edge strategy, then he resumes normal game play.
He is NOT free land anymore, any SL can say "hey, back off, his troops are back, he has learned his lesson". The trick is when SL are not there to tell other players of his status, then the whining and bitching pervades the airwaves...and you got a disaster. *he bash me, no..you're open, no i'm not, that sort of thing.*
What I observe now, that Anti Turtle is an old strategy, that is a fine strategy, if anyone plays that way.
BUT BUT do not bitch and complain if you get hit/whacked and bashed when you are wide open. No ONE can protect you when you send 70% total forces out.
And AT players should inform their SL at the very beginning of the game, so to avoid conflicts within the rest of the game. ~Ashy
you are right loxie, but now, whenever someone got hit, it was because of an AT... i've seen people called an AT despite not even being to break themselves once
It's just an excuse. A lot of officers with old bad habits still operate by outdated regulations that Fenris came up with, like the 3 hits per open kingdom, grab backs, x amount PA retals for infractions, yada yada yada. There IS a difference between high offense and straight AT, even though the distinction is sometimes very fine. Look at someone like Guardia or Rabby. They'd always be rolling kingdoms early, then once war hit, they'd always get targeted first, because that playstyle isn't always hyper sustainable. Game's changed a lot now, though, thanks to all the PT meddling by BCart, so even more fuckery is possible.
Isn't that how you're supposed to ball? =P
If you're not one of the first KT's in a war, you're not doing it right =P
Comments
https://www.starkingdoms.com/community/discussion/4271/suicideat-definitions#Item_26
In general, the offense to defense ratio for Anti-Turtle is as follows:
1. 60:40
2. 77:33 - maybe this meant 77:23
3. 66:34
4. free land
FLAMES October 2014
Posts: 2,080
Regular build 60-40 AT- less then 50-50 and worse.
PeeEyeEee October 2014 QuoteFlag
Posts: 1,946
An Anti-turtle is defined as someone in a constant state of suicide i.e. 33% or less of total military in defense. Some KDs walk a line at 40% and after a couple of grabs have less than 33% defense.
gentlemansfury October 2014 QuoteFlag
Posts: 306
here is my definition of AT..if your defense/offense difference is say this 33/77 you are AT. A good measure to me is if you can break yourselft1.5-2x then you fit the bill and are free land.
PeeEyeEee October 2014 QuoteFlag
Posts: 1,946
LadyAshnod said:
Damdred said:
don't forget pie rules on ATs change as size changes etc
Damred: Yeah, I think the AL's should also make an agreement as to how to define suicidal kingdom, depending on how far are you in the game. Sort of formula, eg. day 7/90 day game or day 50/90 day game. That makes a big difference in growth and NW.
That's a very helpful comment to consider.
Im sorry, but rules on ATs dont change as they get bigger. If you are in a constant suicide, you are free land. If no one can break you fine... but you are still free land and with DWs these days, it doesnt take long to mass troops. No SL or AL can protect suiciders and the formula is still the same as always.
100%-67% -Not Open
66%-34% -Open
33%-0% - Suicider
DeLaRocha November 2014 QuoteFlag
Posts: 28
Hey LA - If your offence can break your defence and your defence is not 'top defence' then you are classed as AT. This can be a viable strategy if you want to have fun, but typically AT kingdoms are those that just want to mess up other kingdoms. ATs are not generally killed because they are AT, they are killed because they are AT and they try and mess up other kingdoms. Eg - all of the current multies have roughly 1k tanks and between 3-5k goons. They are AT and they want to mess up other kingdoms so they are kill targets.
RockzSK November 2014 QuoteFlag
Posts: 99
AT is frerland/KT in anyone's book. Because they ain't hit yet doesn't mean they won't. So u clear them out asap
LoXie March 12 QuoteFlag </b.
Posts: 100
I'm just gonna say this. AT is a gamble. Frankly, ALL of SK is a gamble. It was probably tons easier to hide out when the game had thousands of players, go high probes, make borderline hits, then rely on your probe defense to make sure that nobody could take your SoM and retal. These days, the odds are entirely stacked against anyone attemping AT or pseudo AT builds, because the playerbase is so tiny, that you will get caught out and people WILL find you.
And because of that, I wonder what makes you AT ?
In simplest term, what make you KT by default (aside from obvious suicide)?
Flames was LJ, and Walls of BC mentioned it and others who considered themselves oldies. Since I do not know it and I am oldies, maybe I should be considered ancient.
It was new to me at that time, so I got confuse what is the ratio... and I ask around to check what others say about it. In that round, i think most of the players on AIM told me that AT =KT. Yeah, it has not been mentioned in the last 2 rounds...at least.
AT becomes KT when that KD gets upset when they constantly get hit and start rolling the same Alliance.
33%
If you're not one of the first KT's in a war, you're not doing it right =P
Does this make me AT?
Haha how you been buddy?