Not gona get into the % numbers because people will wade in with def per land and tanks per land and all those other meaningless numbers. Antiturtles are really only defined by the top few kingdoms offense. If you are ahed of the top O with your def then technically you can never be an antiturtle even if you can break yourself easily. People will still cry and use it to get you killed though.
Antiturtles have been around since the beginning of SK but a lot more common since BCart went wild on DW bonuses. Nowadays they are mainly shit players who pick DW and mass goons because they arent used to being able to break top KDs normally.
It is a pretty pointless strat as you always die and if you are decent enough you can catch any turtle with TFs while still keeping good enough D.
I actually remember the defense per land was always use, somewhere like 12 LD or equivalent per land, since percentage is hard to determine after loss in attacks.
So, I get that this AT style playing was established because of DW bonus. okay...Bcart???
I remember we just called them "firecracker" players before and not much about it. They were Not whiners, so when they got hit, well..."sorry!".
Hey LA - If your offence can break your defence and your defence is not 'top defence' then you are classed as AT. This can be a viable strategy if you want to have fun, but typically AT kingdoms are those that just want to mess up other kingdoms. ATs are not generally killed because they are AT, they are killed because they are AT and they try and mess up other kingdoms.
Eg - all of the current multies have roughly 1k tanks and between 3-5k goons. They are AT and they want to mess up other kingdoms so they are kill targets.
Hey LA - If your offence can break your defence and your defence is not 'top defence' then you are classed as AT. This can be a viable strategy if you want to have fun, but typically AT kingdoms are those that just want to mess up other kingdoms. ATs are not generally killed because they are AT, they are killed because they are AT and they try and mess up other kingdoms.
Eg - all of the current multies have roughly 1k tanks and between 3-5k goons. They are AT and they want to mess up other kingdoms so they are kill targets.
Thank you DeLaRocha.
2 days ago, a Fenris player was KT by Baconcookies because of AT style build.
The said kingdom: ) a. did not hit any active kingdoms from any alliances. b. All the hits the kingdom was doing was to the multi AND inactives.
I put a stop to it --- as you pointed out, AT try to mess up other kingdoms. The player has NOT, and have no intention for it, as with multi cases all over us.
Also, he player said this is his first game (got to give benefit of doubt) and because of rampant multi, the player decided to make this build up - probably not knowing what AT was.
I manage to request stop KT from both LJ and Baconcookies for 3 conditions:
1. the said kingdom will rebuild to become regular build - ie. build proper defense, buying one week time to do it. The said kingdoms disband the goons to even the kingdom out. 2. the said kingdom will never EVER attack actives from other alliances. 3. I vouched for the kingdoms to follow conditions 1 and 2. 4.a I will wrote PUBLIC apology on Public Forums to BaconCookies AL if this kingdom I vouched for go against the conditions and
4b) I will never be allowed to post in Public Forums after such apologies.
4b* the audience in the chat conference said that 4b is "unreasonable".
What I learned from the conference was: 1. They told me new SK rules: AT players equals KT.
@Flames @ Walls of Fire PLEASE confirm this summary.
I was busy at work yesterday and just posted this. I have not seen any one of you both pasted any transcript of that chat.
AT is frerland/KT in anyone's book. Because they ain't hit yet doesn't mean they won't. So u clear them out asap
Thanks RockzSK. I wish you were part of my team, so you will be good to set policies early on ...on some issues, then everyone is on the same page. Hence, I ask this question before this round - October 11. AT is a new term for me, and so as other 40 people that I invited back into playing this round.
I find policies now as difficult to find certainty, or definite answers depending on who you ask, and what lead to such policies, when it was started. And who implemented it, was it universally agreed upon? and would it be use again next round?
I might take many games to get use to it.
I propose to have these policies public, per alliance, per AL to sign and put changes per round. It might be okay to ask MOD- 5 sticky for each alliance policies.
I was hoping previous AL, or current AL will post all their alliance policies to here...just to everyone know. Looking for alliance leaders, and set a conference, talk about the case...this is a waste of time. This process resembles to the era when the ancient Greeks started assembly. Messy and crappy if you want me to describe it, but it leads to progress and they wrote their laws after that.
It would be efficient if Alliance Leaders will post their policies here and so as definition of important terms. Whether I am here or not, all of players and non-players this round know what Fenris policies on: newbie bashing, multi, etc.... So, it stops the bickering in the long run.
* Thank for your post . I like the idea of being pro-active, rather than waiting for crap to happen and waste time dwelling on it.
i just think it is strange that an AT would be a kt, i mean, if he is an AT, then why do you need to kt them, just post as free land and people go for it if they can, but a KT, people will fail on etc..
I agree with ashy, it has to be clear, but then also the alliances have to kt their OWN ATs.
i just think it is strange that an AT would be a kt, i mean, if he is an AT, then why do you need to kt them, just post as free land and people go for it if they can, but a KT, people will fail on etc..
I agree with ashy, it has to be clear, but then also the alliances have to kt their OWN ATs.
Do you post AT's as a KT? i'm assuming this is the question.
I assume you agree, like the rest of the universe AT's fall under the definition of 'suiciders' or 'very open kingdoms' having more military points out, than at home. because offensive units don't count as defensive points, they are always considered 'out' more or less.
if you they are free land, you can do whatever you want with them. so it is up to the alliance if they want to post the kingdom as a KT. because it is already sanctioned by the universe. So it is just a matter of centralizing all of the warleaders on the same target, rather than letting them determine their own targets.
so if you wanting a discussion whether to KT AT's. There is no warrant to do so. if you are wanting a discussion whether or not AT's are free land. there is no discussion, they are free land.
AT is a new term for me, and so as other 40 people that I invited back into playing this round.
Is defense a new term for you guys? You're asking the uni to overlook someone not building an appropriate defense. It doesn't matter what era of SK you play in, someone sitting on 75% offense is gonna get demolished as soon as they are found out. AT is just a word to describe permanently suicided, and every alliance ever to play SK knows a suicider is free land. Remind your guys that safe defense is a thing, and they should probably look into it.
AT is a new term for me, and so as other 40 people that I invited back into playing this round.
Is defense a new term for you guys? You're asking the uni to overlook someone not building an appropriate defense. It doesn't matter what era of SK you play in, someone sitting on 75% offense is gonna get demolished as soon as they are found out. AT is just a word to describe permanently suicided, and every alliance ever to play SK knows a suicider is free land. Remind your guys that safe defense is a thing, and they should probably look into it.
See my above post. 5 tanks defense points per land.
AT is a new term for me, and so as other 40 people that I invited back into playing this round.
Is defense a new term for you guys? You're asking the uni to overlook someone not building an appropriate defense. It doesn't matter what era of SK you play in, someone sitting on 75% offense is gonna get demolished as soon as they are found out. AT is just a word to describe permanently suicided, and every alliance ever to play SK knows a suicider is free land. Remind your guys that safe defense is a thing, and they should probably look into it.
See my above post. 5 tanks defense points per land.
Way too much text to read. If someone has 5 tanks per land at this stage of the game, chances are they aren't AT, so this statement is irrelevant to the conversation.
If someone wants to farm. they would create a farm. have that farm suicide. then farm it. by your rule.
when the 'no suicider farming' rule came into play, we already discussed this and I explained in detail at the beginning of the round , but I will ONCE AGAIN REITERATE IT FOR YOU.
You cannot always tell if the suicider is 'legitimately' farmed or 'illegitimately' farmed. so you can either, ALWAYS QUESTION every suicide or 1. allow every suicider be free land 2. allow NO suicider to be free land
leaving option 1, just lets ppl free farm. and so people make suicide farms and farm them. this is terrible.
2. is just stupid, cuz then u r suiciding and no one is hitting you.
THE RESULT: restricting the first hits on suiciders. Usually it has been set to the first 5 hits, everyone can only take 1 hit. Now it is no longer favorable for people to 'create a farm' to farm it, because they only get 1 hit, and if you are hitting after the first 5+ hits, MA is so high, you barely get any land, so it is ALSO not worth it.
DOES IT WORK: YES. In the past rounds, the amount of suiciders and farming that happened in this game DRASTICALLY DECREASED. as well, it evens up the playing field for legitimate players, now everyone is on a level playing field, no one gets a 50% spike in their land for having 0 offense.
IS IT WORKING THIS ROUND? not really, I don't know if it is because of the MASSIVE INFLUX of old players where farming and this 'suicider rule' did not exist. (but this may just be an outlier, and not due to the return of players who don't know about this rule)
Now for people who hit suiciders 3x and are not intentionally farming, each one is a case by case basis, but honestly this is why the suiciding rule is placed, Most alliances barely have any leadership, most dont even have a competent AL every round. The rules are not only in place to create a better community, but nowadays also an 'easier' community for leadership. So if everyone hits a suicider once. No work to be done, Hit 3x = kt, still no work to be done. This is why we do it.
obviously some people still go 'who cares, if they want to kt me for it, i dun care, but i want that land' and they hit 3x anyways. Then it becomes another problem in the problem thread.
summary:
Suicider rule helps fair play, slows farmers and cheaters, and is just easier to handle for the new alliance leaders.
November 4, 13:05:14 Our kingdom HTS OG (1:11) bravely defended against Jokowi (1:6) and lost 241 planets.
November 4, 13:05:37 Our brave kingdom Go Blue (1:19) attacked Jokowi (1:6) and failed. November 4, 13:05:48 Our brave kingdom Go Blue (1:19) attacked Jokowi (1:6) and conquered 202 planets. November 4, 13:05:52 Our brave kingdom Go Blue (1:19) attacked Jokowi (1:6) and conquered 172 planets. November 4, 13:05:57 Our brave kingdom Go Blue (1:19) attacked Jokowi (1:6) and conquered 148 planets.
Jokowi (1:6)
Mission: Success (November 4, 13:27:52) Action: Spy on Military Losses: We lost a total of 1 probes in this mission. Report: The probes have come back with a report that is 100% accurate:
Home Leader War Leader #1 War Leader #2 War Leader #3 War Leader #4 Status AVAILABLE (0) UNAVAILABLE (18) UNAVAILABLE (12) UNAVAILABLE (6) AVAILABLE (0) Soldiers 0 75 75 75 0 Troopers 0 0 0 0 0 Dragoons 0 2,425 2,425 2,426 0 Laser Troopers 0 0 0 0 0 Tanks 0 1,641 1,641
by your definition, suicide = free land by my definition that is a farmjob.
If someone wants to farm. they would create a farm. have that farm suicide. then farm it. by your rule.
when the 'no suicider farming' rule came into play, we already discussed this and I explained in detail at the beginning of the round , but I will ONCE AGAIN REITERATE IT FOR YOU.
You cannot always tell if the suicider is 'legitimately' farmed or 'illegitimately' farmed. so you can either, ALWAYS QUESTION every suicide or 1. allow every suicider be free land 2. allow NO suicider to be free land
leaving option 1, just lets ppl free farm. and so people make suicide farms and farm them. this is terrible.
2. is just stupid, cuz then u r suiciding and no one is hitting you.
THE RESULT: restricting the first hits on suiciders. Usually it has been set to the first 5 hits, everyone can only take 1 hit. Now it is no longer favorable for people to 'create a farm' to farm it, because they only get 1 hit, and if you are hitting after the first 5+ hits, MA is so high, you barely get any land, so it is ALSO not worth it.
DOES IT WORK: YES. In the past rounds, the amount of suiciders and farming that happened in this game DRASTICALLY DECREASED. as well, it evens up the playing field for legitimate players, now everyone is on a level playing field, no one gets a 50% spike in their land for having 0 offense.
IS IT WORKING THIS ROUND? not really, I don't know if it is because of the MASSIVE INFLUX of old players where farming and this 'suicider rule' did not exist. (but this may just be an outlier, and not due to the return of players who don't know about this rule)
Now for people who hit suiciders 3x and are not intentionally farming, each one is a case by case basis, but honestly this is why the suiciding rule is placed, Most alliances barely have any leadership, most dont even have a competent AL every round. The rules are not only in place to create a better community, but nowadays also an 'easier' community for leadership. So if everyone hits a suicider once. No work to be done, Hit 3x = kt, still no work to be done. This is why we do it.
obviously some people still go 'who cares, if they want to kt me for it, i dun care, but i want that land' and they hit 3x anyways. Then it becomes another problem in the problem thread.
summary:
Suicider rule helps fair play, slows farmers and cheaters, and is just easier to handle for the new alliance leaders.
November 4, 12:51:05 Jokowi (1:6) hi guys November 4, 12:51:10 Jokowi (1:6) anyone has wl? November 4, 12:52:30 Jokowi (1:6) im quitting November 4, 12:52:38 Jokowi (1:6) who should i suicide on November 4, 13:00:39 Santa Claus (1:5) noo, wait 3 ticks November 4, 13:00:40 Jokowi (1:6) my last hit this round is specially dedicated to HTS OG 1.11 hes a farmer November 4, 13:01:10 Santa Claus (1:5) oh well.. take care November 4, 13:03:17 Jokowi (1:6) fark November 4, 13:03:23 Jokowi (1:6) poor stupid connection November 4, 13:03:32 Jokowi (1:6) my hit not loading? November 4, 13:05:25 theallmighty (1:3) he messing lol November 4, 13:06:31 Jokowi (1:6) done November 4, 13:06:32 Jokowi (1:6) free land
Comments
Antiturtles have been around since the beginning of SK but a lot more common since BCart went wild on DW bonuses. Nowadays they are mainly shit players who pick DW and mass goons because they arent used to being able to break top KDs normally.
It is a pretty pointless strat as you always die and if you are decent enough you can catch any turtle with TFs while still keeping good enough D.
I actually remember the defense per land was always use, somewhere like 12 LD or equivalent per land, since percentage is hard to determine after loss in attacks.
So, I get that this AT style playing was established because of DW bonus. okay...Bcart???
I remember we just called them "firecracker" players before and not much about it. They were Not whiners, so when they got hit, well..."sorry!".
~
I've read that an AT can be posted as Freeland....not KT.
I could be wrong, but will re-read this post later, for further reference.
Eg - all of the current multies have roughly 1k tanks and between 3-5k goons. They are AT and they want to mess up other kingdoms so they are kill targets.
2 days ago, a Fenris player was KT by Baconcookies because of AT style build.
The said kingdom: )
a. did not hit any active kingdoms from any alliances.
b. All the hits the kingdom was doing was to the multi AND inactives.
I put a stop to it --- as you pointed out, AT try to mess up other kingdoms. The player has NOT, and have no intention for it, as with multi cases all over us.
Also, he player said this is his first game (got to give benefit of doubt) and because of rampant multi, the player decided to make this build up - probably not knowing what AT was.
I manage to request stop KT from both LJ and Baconcookies for 3 conditions:
1. the said kingdom will rebuild to become regular build - ie. build proper defense, buying one week time to do it.
The said kingdoms disband the goons to even the kingdom out.
2. the said kingdom will never EVER attack actives from other alliances.
3. I vouched for the kingdoms to follow conditions 1 and 2.
4.a I will wrote PUBLIC apology on Public Forums to BaconCookies AL if this kingdom I vouched for go against the conditions and
4b) I will never be allowed to post in Public Forums after such apologies.
4b* the audience in the chat conference said that 4b is "unreasonable".
What I learned from the conference was:
1. They told me new SK rules: AT players equals KT.
@Flames @ Walls of Fire PLEASE confirm this summary.
I was busy at work yesterday and just posted this.
I have not seen any one of you both pasted any transcript of that chat.
However, Suiciders are all free land as in this discussion above.
I kill my own suiciders from Fenris, especially those who attack ALLIANCE OFFICERS of BC/LUM before everyone cries bloody murder again.
AND If they complain that I killed my suiciders --- i.e. farming, then that is just another political ploy.
Hence, I ask this question before this round - October 11. AT is a new term for me, and so as other 40 people that I invited back into playing this round.
I find policies now as difficult to find certainty, or definite answers depending on who you ask, and what lead to such policies, when it was started. And who implemented it, was it universally agreed upon? and would it be use again next round?
I might take many games to get use to it.
I propose to have these policies public, per alliance, per AL to sign and put changes per round. It might be okay to ask MOD- 5 sticky for each alliance policies.
I was hoping previous AL, or current AL will post all their alliance policies to here...just to everyone know. Looking for alliance leaders, and set a conference, talk about the case...this is a waste of time.
This process resembles to the era when the ancient Greeks started assembly. Messy and crappy if you want me to describe it, but it leads to progress and they wrote their laws after that.
It would be efficient if Alliance Leaders will post their policies here and so as definition of important terms. Whether I am here or not, all of players and non-players this round know what Fenris policies on: newbie bashing, multi, etc....
So, it stops the bickering in the long run.
* Thank for your post . I like the idea of being pro-active, rather than waiting for crap to happen and waste time dwelling on it.
~Ladyashnod~ Fenris AL Game 66
I agree with ashy, it has to be clear, but then also the alliances have to kt their OWN ATs.
Do you post AT's as a KT? i'm assuming this is the question.
I assume you agree, like the rest of the universe AT's fall under the definition of 'suiciders' or 'very open kingdoms' having more military points out, than at home. because offensive units don't count as defensive points, they are always considered 'out' more or less.
if you they are free land, you can do whatever you want with them.
so it is up to the alliance if they want to post the kingdom as a KT. because it is already sanctioned by the universe. So it is just a matter of centralizing all of the warleaders on the same target, rather than letting them determine their own targets.
so if you wanting a discussion whether to KT AT's. There is no warrant to do so.
if you are wanting a discussion whether or not AT's are free land. there is no discussion, they are free land.
If someone wants to farm. they would create a farm. have that farm suicide. then farm it. by your rule.
when the 'no suicider farming' rule came into play, we already discussed this and I explained in detail at the beginning of the round , but I will ONCE AGAIN REITERATE IT FOR YOU.
You cannot always tell if the suicider is 'legitimately' farmed or 'illegitimately' farmed.
so you can either, ALWAYS QUESTION every suicide
or
1. allow every suicider be free land
2. allow NO suicider to be free land
leaving option 1, just lets ppl free farm. and so people make suicide farms and farm them. this is terrible.
2. is just stupid, cuz then u r suiciding and no one is hitting you.
THE RESULT:
restricting the first hits on suiciders. Usually it has been set to the first 5 hits, everyone can only take 1 hit. Now it is no longer favorable for people to 'create a farm' to farm it, because they only get 1 hit, and if you are hitting after the first 5+ hits, MA is so high, you barely get any land, so it is ALSO not worth it.
DOES IT WORK:
YES. In the past rounds, the amount of suiciders and farming that happened in this game DRASTICALLY DECREASED. as well, it evens up the playing field for legitimate players, now everyone is on a level playing field, no one gets a 50% spike in their land for having 0 offense.
IS IT WORKING THIS ROUND?
not really, I don't know if it is because of the MASSIVE INFLUX of old players where farming and this 'suicider rule' did not exist. (but this may just be an outlier, and not due to the return of players who don't know about this rule)
Now for people who hit suiciders 3x and are not intentionally farming, each one is a case by case basis, but honestly this is why the suiciding rule is placed, Most alliances barely have any leadership, most dont even have a competent AL every round. The rules are not only in place to create a better community, but nowadays also an 'easier' community for leadership. So if everyone hits a suicider once. No work to be done, Hit 3x = kt, still no work to be done. This is why we do it.
obviously some people still go 'who cares, if they want to kt me for it, i dun care, but i want that land' and they hit 3x anyways. Then it becomes another problem in the problem thread.
summary:
Suicider rule helps fair play, slows farmers and cheaters, and is just easier to handle for the new alliance leaders.
November 4, 13:05:14 Our kingdom HTS OG (1:11) bravely defended against Jokowi (1:6) and lost 241 planets.
November 4, 13:05:37 Our brave kingdom Go Blue (1:19) attacked Jokowi (1:6) and failed.
November 4, 13:05:48 Our brave kingdom Go Blue (1:19) attacked Jokowi (1:6) and conquered 202 planets.
November 4, 13:05:52 Our brave kingdom Go Blue (1:19) attacked Jokowi (1:6) and conquered 172 planets.
November 4, 13:05:57 Our brave kingdom Go Blue (1:19) attacked Jokowi (1:6) and conquered 148 planets.
Jokowi (1:6)
Mission: Success
(November 4, 13:27:52)
Action: Spy on Military
Losses: We lost a total of 1 probes in this mission.
Report: The probes have come back with a report that is 100% accurate:
Home Leader War Leader #1 War Leader #2 War Leader #3 War Leader #4
Status AVAILABLE (0) UNAVAILABLE (18) UNAVAILABLE (12) UNAVAILABLE (6) AVAILABLE (0)
Soldiers 0 75 75 75 0
Troopers 0 0 0 0 0
Dragoons 0 2,425 2,425 2,426 0
Laser Troopers 0 0 0 0 0
Tanks 0 1,641 1,641
by your definition, suicide = free land
by my definition that is a farmjob.
Go Blue (1:19)
Last Login:
IPvSK2: 860-BC-C8-3A - November 4, 13:28:34
User has logged in using:
IPvSK2: 957-2B-1C-FA
IPvSK2: 858-FE-A2-F5
IPvSK2: 971-4E-7F-EE
IPvSK2: 926-B7-F4-BD
IPvSK2: 914-AC-00-C3
Jokowi (1:6)
Last Login:
IPvSK2: 870-01-77-00 - November 4, 12:24:45
User has logged in using:
IPvSK2: 742-77-93-83
IPvSK2: 504-7C-EB-39
IPvSK2: 865-C0-22-09
IPvSK2: 824-25-26-2E
IPvSK2: 889-16-EA-B6
No matching ips. suicide = free land?
no this is a farm job. and needs to be kt'd. simple.
November 4, 12:51:10 Jokowi (1:6) anyone has wl?
November 4, 12:52:30 Jokowi (1:6) im quitting
November 4, 12:52:38 Jokowi (1:6) who should i suicide on
November 4, 13:00:39 Santa Claus (1:5) noo, wait 3 ticks
November 4, 13:00:40 Jokowi (1:6) my last hit this round is specially dedicated to HTS OG 1.11 hes a farmer
November 4, 13:01:10 Santa Claus (1:5) oh well.. take care
November 4, 13:03:17 Jokowi (1:6) fark
November 4, 13:03:23 Jokowi (1:6) poor stupid connection
November 4, 13:03:32 Jokowi (1:6) my hit not loading?
November 4, 13:05:25 theallmighty (1:3) he messing lol
November 4, 13:06:31 Jokowi (1:6) done
November 4, 13:06:32 Jokowi (1:6) free land
universal chat at the time.