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  • Come at me with hard evidence of why the Church is have none

  • Mate, have you ever been inside the Vatican? So much for their vow of abstinence and poverty.

    Maybe you accept the all the bits and pieces, but those leading the church are not living by the same principles you do. To say one thing and do another, is called hypocrisy. To see hypocrisy as benevolence, well. That is brainwashing.

  • The Opus Maius of Roger Bacon, requested by the Pope, initiated the use of eyeglasses in the West.

    The Gregorian calendar: created by Catholic astronomers.

    The Big Bang theory..once again a Catholic priest.

    Marco Polo, Ferdinand Magellan, Christopher Columbus..all Catholics.

    Lamarck: developed the first theory of evolution.

    We cannot discount Augustine and Aquinas contributions to philosophy.

    By the 15th century the Church had created 50 universities in Europe..every heard of Oxford or Cambridge?

    Pope Gregory VII demanded the forming the laws of the Church and states of Europe.

    Gratian produced the first complete bodies of law.

    Ever heard of these terms? “Good faith”, reciprocity of rights, equality before the law, international law, trial by jury?

    Literacy was spread by the Church.

    The first hospitals in Europe...founded by the Church.

    The list goes on and on folks.

  • The West was founded on the Church, and now it has turned its back on it.

  • Where do you people think human rights come from? From God, and from people's belief that man is made in his image.

    If we are all just animals then we have no rights fools

  • The splendor of the Churches is to glorify god. Are those in the Church selling all the ornate gold to further themselves? Or course not. Sorry but that is a silly attack on the Church

  • Also where do you think this money comes from? From stealing it? From selling goods. No it comes from donations from those who love their Church

  • Im sorry, the Gregorian Calendar? You're saying that's a great accomplishment by the church? it has a 0.0002% difference against the Julian Calendar. In other words it doesn't even affect you over a lifetime. On top of that, it was a calendar for which one of its main reasons was to make collecting taxes easier. So now we have months with 30, 31 and 28 days and every 4 years a 29th. Instead of watching the moon and following the moon cycle (13 cycles not 12 btw), which would have us far more in tune with the earth - in case you haven't noticed even tides change depending on the moon.

    You then go ahead to name drop Christians. Well you know what? If they were anything but Christian, they would've died in one of the many inquisitions. Maybe you never had to live through that, but there's remains of those times all over Europe, well embeded in our literature and minds, for those who still have one.

    And yes the church had a monopoly on education - because they were the only ones who were ever taught to read and write. It was a skill highly guarded, and not spreading it allowed to keep the masses dumbed down. It then started trickling down to aristocracy, and only much later to the commoners. Its not like the church taught everyone and anyone to read and write overnight.

    The first hospitals created by the church..... sure. Right after they burnt all the "witches" that used herbal medicine.

    And no the west was not founded by the church. The Church came into the west with the death of Constantine I. He decided that Jesus was divine in Niceae and "fought" for the church all his life because the roman empire was fractured enough as it was in every sense, trying to reunite spiritual differences within the empire, and declared himself Christian on his deathbed.

    Of course this was already towards the end of the Roman empire, and empire which effects' are still felt all over Europe.

    Yes we are all animals, that is why we are fighting for animal rights too.

    Anyway. The list of the things the Church has done wrong goes on, and on, and on.

    Whatever you believe, to not aknowledge these, is just simply ignorance.

  • oh and where does the church's money come from.... that's a hard one to answer.

    Didn't all those people go out to Africa and South America and India to spread Christianity and then they came back with slaves and gold?

    I think that might have something to do with it.

  • oh and on the calendar thing...

    something just doesn't seem to add up...

    if a week is 7 days, and a month is four weeks, then a month would only be 28 days.

    if a month is only 28 days, then we would need 13 months rather than 12 to reach that 364 days... or was it 365 ?

    365/12 = 30.41
    364/13 = 28.00

    Isn't it weird that a female's ovulation cycle is also 28 days?

    A moon cycle is 28 days?

    4 weeks is 28 days?

    Why would someone want to change from a calendar that is 28 days every month, to a messed up calendar of 28 / 29 / 30 / 31 days?

    Why are Christian holidays based on the days of the week, rather than a specific date?

    Maybe it has something to do with the fact that those holidays are (astrologically) aligned, but the calendar is clearly not, although it used to be. And the Church knows it.

  • edited September 2018

    @RMagician Sadly there is no point. He's off with the rest of them in la-la land :smile:

    @CountD You say the rate of paedophilia within the priesthood is the same as the general public. Shouldn't those that preach such high morals, and claim to be the keeper's of God's word, be held accountable to a MUCH higher, if not perfect standard of honour?

    To which, that guy I posted about is not just a priest, but one of the top dogs in the Vatican.

    Look, I admit, "Jesus was way kool", but the men that wield their piousness down on us sinners, are gangsters & scammers.

    Stop giving them the power to rape our children and live a life of luxury @ our expense...

    & didn't Jesus say it wasn't necessary to pray in church?
    I know there are numerous passages saying this... in both bibles. The old & the new.

    These 2 come to mind....

    Matthew 6:5
    “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

    Matthew 6:6
    "But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

  • Yeah countdank, sorry bud but you are getting objectively shit on, don’t go any further or you will start getting bombs dropped on you that will make you question your faith and that might not be a good thing for you. I’ve seen all the points you mentioned on r/christianmemes and Rmag pretty soundly fuckin destroyed them. I will say a couple parts of Rmag’s points are a bit broad or harsh, but fundamentally factual

    Cops shouldn’t be criminals at the same rate as the gen pop, same standards apply to holy men or the whole system is pointless

  • edited September 2018

    Haha you act as if I dont know of Constantine and the conversion of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire is #2 in the most influential institutions to the West. It was also the exact condition necessary for Christ's word to be brought to all the peoples the then known world. I figured you'd use the inquisition, a bit more refreshing then the crusades. The inquisition (and the crusades aswell) were more political then anything. Also they were defensive in nature, Christian Iberia was expelling the Islamic incursion that had been there for hundreds of years. The Church of course has flaws, because it is made of people who are by their nature flawed. The long story short the Chuch's mission is to spread Christ's word to the world. It has essentially done that minus a few isolated groups, and has done far more good for the world than bad.

    On Christ teaching us about the hypocrite who prays so that others think he is righteous in order to satisfy himself - I have read this many times haha you are not delivering new knowledge upon me. Look at it simply, Christ is condemning the Pharisee arrogance not his public prayer. The Pharisee is praying for his own benefit, that is the point he is making. Christ is written of praying aloud with his disciples in John and in Acts.

    Oh I forgot the conversion of the Americas and Africa, India, etc. The contact would have happened regardless, and once again it was not Church officials selling slaves it was the nations for economic benefit.

    Here's one for you: Sublimus Dei (1537) Pope Paul III forbade "unjust kinds of enslavement". Take a guess of who he was referring to? The indigenous people of the Americas. Once again long story short Christanity and Western civilization was imparted on these people, many of whom had barbaric (though interesting I'll admit) fashions.

  • Another point on the pedophilia. As I have said it is proven that the percentage is the same as the general population. Yes, holy men should be more pious then the ordinary population. This is a recent phenomenon however, and is a result of Vatican II I believe. The Church has become very liberal and priests are not being taught as they were previous in the seminaries. Numbers of those admitting into seminaries is unfortunately low. The Church needs to admit the wrongs of Vatican II and institute better training of priests. It is an unsightly blot on the Church and needs to be corrected, I agree.

  • I forgot the living the life of luxury part..this is just laughable. You know priests make like 30k a year right? I think if someone wants to get rich and live in luxury they think hmm I'll get into finance or banking not oh I am going to devote my entire life to God. Think we would be hard pressed to find someone who got into the Church for money, lmao.

  • Keep at it boys. I'd rather you attack the existence of God through philosophical means, it'd be a bit more exciting but I'll take what i can get.

  • All your arguments I used when I was 13 and ignorant...they're a bit old now

  • OMGods!! Next.....

  • You know what's good about Christianity? The customs it inherited from the religions before it.

  • Count, just because you went through an angsty athiest phase it doesn't mean all of us have.

    Simply put there is no objective evidence for christianity over any other religion, other than it meshes well with white culture, the same way barbaric islam works perfectly for arabs and blacks, more moderate islam works pretty ok for malaysians, indians all are about that hindu life etc

    The popular religion is an ideology that meshes best with a core demographic's biological dispositions, the rest is just a collection of stories and fables used to pass down moral codes and life lessons, when you start taxing people and claiming to be the direct mouthpiece of GOD, thats when it starts getting a little toxic

    Again, buddhists are the closest we have to a pure religion because they dont evangelize. They just live their fuckin lives and tell people about it if theyre interested, but survival of the fittest applies to religions too, so its not a big surprise if islam wipes out the rest for a bit, but then watch it change from the inside as the biological dispositions of a conquered civilization like England rebel against the islamic codes

  • in fact, given who counts namesake is im pretty sure he is perfect evidence of this occurring, in the face of an invading mismatch he is retreating further into his more natural faith, im glad to see it personally

  • I don't see why you guys don't get it. When you speak of the direct mouthpiece of God I'm assuming you mean the Pope...once again the Pope was instituted by Christ himself. The Pope does not give us new teachings from God if that is wgat you think, he simply is the pastor of the Church.

    As for Christianity borrowing from previous mean Judaism? Makes sense since Christ was a Jew and his Father is the same God of the Jews. Old news brother

  • As for evidence of God over Eastern religions, read some theology and philosophy. Catholics believe there is some truth in all religions, that God did reveal himself partially to these peoples, but his final message was sent with his Son Jesus Christ.

  • God must be omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omnipresent. None of these exist in the East..

  • The religions of the east are dangerous, especially with their influence of the new age movement in the west, where people believe they can become god themselves and that there is no reality besides the one you fashion for yourself

  • All I can say is that I look into my own nature and see that it wishes to be good but is surrounded by sin which my body longs for. I seek to become a better person everyday and become closer to God. I see that as I do this my life does improve and it becomes more fruitful. We all seek the Truth whether you can recognize it now or not, I hope one day you will all see.

    For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?

  • "I seek to become a better person everyday "

    "my life does improve and it becomes more fruitful."

    Thats all it is Count, like I said your motivation is your own, but you would be wise to shut the fuck up about it unless directly asked, the same way I shouldnt drop fitness tips on someone who I percieve as fat, and the same way a muslim shouldnt tell you about the glorious path to allah. I'm happy to share all my knowledge with anyone who sees my personal success and seeks my wisdom, and so should you if you believe your success comes from your religion

    Do you get it?

  • Thanks for those Darius, nice to see you keep a cool head (I couldnt quite be bothered).

    Btw, Buddhism doesn't even consider itself to be a religion as much as it considers itself to be a philosophy of life.

    Count, if you ever get the chance, I think you might find the first part of Zeitgeist (movie) pretty interesting.

  • Not likely Darius. He's what? 21? I can say the same about food instead of fitness. Let him preach and watch people listen less and less.

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